“All information that we have about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ are in the Bible. One of the things that Jesus is quoted as saying is that the Old Testament was accurate and inspired down to the very punctuation (jot and tittle).
So, either the Bible is a valid book, or Christianity is false. There is no other valid option.
Therefore, if feminism is not taught in the Bible, and even further, if feminism is contradicted in the Bible, then there is no intellectually honest way that a woman could call herself, “Christian” and “feminist” at the same time.
The Bible is the only source for Christian knowledge, and it therefore must be accepted in order to be honestly a Christian believer.”
Read on –> The Bible and the Feminist
It’s safe to say when it comes to defending women’s rights, god’s sleeping on the job and has been for a verrrrrry long time. Guess that’s what we’d expect from imaginary friends.
What Jesus Affirmed about the Old Testament
The Nature of the Old Testament’s Authority. It Has:
A. Divine Inspiration — Matthew 22:43
B. Indestructability — Matthew 5:17,18
C. Infallibility — John 10:35
D. Final Authority — Matthew 4:4,7,10
E. Historicity — Matthew 12:40; 24:37
F. Factual Inerrancy — John 17:17; Matthew 22:29
G. Christ-Centered Unity –Luke 24:27, John 5:39
H. Spiritual Clarity — Luke 24:25
I. Faith and Life Sufficiency — Luke 16:31
The Extent of the Old Testament’s Authority. It Extends to:
A. The Words — Matthew 22:43; (cf. 1 Cor. 2:13) B. The Tenses of Verbs — Matthew 22:32; (cf. Gal. 3:16) C. The Smallest Parts of the Words — Matthew 5:17,18
This whole “Jesus was a feminist” argument posed by writers such as Leonard Swidler (book linked above) or by “Christain Feminists” is simply irrelevant.
Whether Jesus existed or not …. was or was not a feminist, is neither here nor there. IF Jesus existed, he at best set a precedence for “choose my choice, cherry picking religion” – which is to say, Jesus cannot both state that the Bible is the True word of God, whilst picking and choosing the parts he wished to adhere to or behave in a way that was not in accordance with the True Word of God. Doing so would simply make him a hypocrite or a bad Christian.
It doesn’t matter if Jesus was a feminist, or whether Jesus was nice to women. The fact of the matter is the Bible is NOT feminist. The Bible does NOT promote equality of men and women. The Bible does NOT ensure the rights and freedoms of women. Women were second class citizens according to the Bible. They could be bought, sold, raped or murdered, silenced, beaten, excluded and the list goes on and this has not changed over much.
It doesn’t take an atheist woman to see this. Lisa Miller wrote an article called, Feminism’s Final Frontier? Religion that is noteable for the fact that it makes explicit that there are men, religious men, who very clearly see the writing on the wall.
“…. an evangelical minister named Jim Henderson, argues that unless the male leaders of conservative Christian churches do some serious soul-searching — pronto — the women who have always sustained those churches with their time, sweat and cash will leave. In droves. And they won’t come back. Their children, traditionally brought to church by their mothers, will thus join the growing numbers of Americans who call themselves “un-churched.” Nevermind that the Bible talks about women submitting to men and sitting silently in church, Henderson declaims. That’s ancient history. “Until those with power (men) decide to give it away to those who lack it (women), I believe we will continue to misrepresent Jesus’ heart and mar the beauty of his Kingdom,” Henderson writes.
I of course, am not blaming Jesus for any of this. Jesus was not the boss of Christianity, afterall.
It is ridiculous to say that religion is a “choose my choice”undertaking for women. Religion is used to control our relationships, our bodies, our minds and our voices. Religion impacts our rights and our freedoms. Religion is POLITICAL.
Religion sees women and “women’s issues” in very particular ways which are political, which disadvantage us legally, socially, economically, physically and mentally. You cannot choose your choice to believe the “good parts”of religion whilst ignoring the widespread oppression of women which is done in the name of “god”.
There is no evidence to support the presence of a god, certainly not a god who cares enough about humanity to not willfully destroy humanity at the point we do not believe enough, or properly. Saying god, any god, is pro life is the most ridiculous and short sighted drivel. Saying religion is “pro-women”or even “feminist” is insane.
Religion is political. When we give over public dollars to religious organizations, we’d have to be beyond naive to believe that their religious values/beliefs/opinions will not shape those “public services”. Church organizations have no business imposing their religious agendas on the public, whether through their vote, or their “services”… religious based community services will ALWAYS disadvantage women, children and minorities.
‘ My local Catholic school forces their students to choose a bible quote for their yearbook entries. My friend’s brother’s choice of quote is wonderful.
“Man enjoys the great advantage of having a god endorse the code he writes; and since man exercises a sovereign authority over women it is especially fortunate that this authority has been vested in him by the Supreme Being.For the Jews, Mohammedans and Christians among others, man is master by divine right; the fear of God will therefore repress any impulse towards revolt in the downtrodden female.
–Simone de Beauvoir, The Second Sex 1949
Oh hi, and Happy Sunday! In light of the many outraged comments I received following last week’s Sunday Thought postings, in which I suggested that I was an atheist because (in great part) religion has not a thing to offer me as a woman – I thought I would push forward and explain that a teensy bit for the women who insist that they are religious and feminist.
I am not gonna get into a big song and dance about this because the fact is, you can do your own (god) damn research and find out why it is that many feminists (certainly the ones I align with) have strong opinions about the incompatability of religion with women’s rights/emancipation. A good many of us would go as far to say that religion is incompatible with feminism and that to call ones self a “religious feminist”is a bit of an oxymoron at best.
How very dare I say this?!
Well, it’s not exactly rocket science how I get to there. Read your scriptures and carefully consider what they have to say about women. Not to pick on Christianity, which is no better or worse than any other religion, but I just happen to have a big ol list of anti-women’s rights Christian scripture at hand…
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” (Ephesians 5:22-24)
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)
“Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman.” (Eccles. 25:13)
“Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die.” (Eccles. 25:22)
“If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go.” (Eccles. 25: 26)
“The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty.” (Eccles. 26:9-10)
“A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued.” (Eccles. 26:14-15)
“A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord.” (Eccles.26:25)
“For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach.” (Eccles. 42:13-14)
I could go on and on and on indefinitely and if you don’t know where I am getting this shit from, flip open your bible ladies. I don’t care what you cherry pick for your “I choose my choice religion”…
… the only way I can see for a feminist to be “religious”is to pick and choose, carefully, carefully mind you – which parts of their religion they are going to pay attention to. There is something really wrong with people aligning with a religion, but only the parts of the religion that suit them, as tho the rest of their religion’s history, holy books, ideology, scripture and oh lets not forget deeds etc don’t really matter. Whilst I can appreciate that you personally choose to disregard the nastier bits of your religious belief system – fact is those bits don’t evaporate just cuz you choose your choice not to notice them, Ostrich Lady.
In fact, even tho you personally might not be practicing the nastier bits of your religion, someone out there may very well be. Let me dredge up an example with all the bullshit that is going on, in the U.S about the right wing, religious fundamentalist crusade against women’s reproductive freedoms. [We all know that bullshit is not limited to the U.S, all countries have some version of it going on, it's just so freakishly evident right now in the states].
Let’s look at how choose your choice religion looks in practice by having a gander at the Methodist Church.
Looks pretty progressive eh? Well done Methodists, except the majority of Methodists are extremely unhappy with this group’s leftist, abortion loving antics [Shameful United Methodism] So certain individuals may well lean toward progressive political and personal ideology, but it does not mean that they are in fact supported by their religion to do so. Cherry picking pisses ‘real’ religious folk off, and understandably so, no one likes a fence sitter.
You don’t get to be “in religion, but not really” or “out of religion, but not quite”- not in my feminism, and probably not in your religion either. The status of women is not equal to men in religious texts, theology or practice.
Some feminists are gonna make it okay for women to say they are religious feminists. Women (feminists) such as Julie Burchill, who calls herself a Christian Zionist, a Christian feminist and a Christian socialist, put forth the arguement that it is quite possible to be both religious and feminist [ For the Love of Christ]. Whilst other women (feminists) like Cath Elliot vehemently disagree [I'm Not Praying]. You’ll have to decide where you sit in terms of the debate, the logic and your feminism.
I make zero apology that my feminism aligns more closely with Cath Elliot’s feminism, and not a bit toward Julie Burchill’s – and I am 100% okay with that. Liberal feminism is largely a cop-out in my books, and I am not terribly interested “choose my choice”religion – and as I said last week, religion does nothing for women and that is one of the BIG reasons why I am an Atheist.
God does not serve me. Religion does not serve me. I do not serve god (any god) or any religion.
“Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians” - Pat Robertson (evangelist, Republican broadcaster — and all round idiot)
I choose my choice.